Why Did 12By12Daily Raise The Maximum Upgrade Ceiling From $6000 To $12000?
November 23, 2006
Yesterday, Dave made an update you can read it here:
Autosurf 12by12daily: LATEST UPDATE FROM DAVE 21 November
After this update, many people were happy and many people were worried. I will add some analysis if you think positive or negative:
Positive toughts:
- If 12by12daily is not strong why Dave will increase their maximum amount? On the contrary, if there is an increasing of MAX in ANY autosurf is because they are healthy.
- If 12by12daily are thinking to close soon, they will not make such updates in the site, as fixing the database of accounts, increasing their maximum amount of ad units, etc..
- Another good thing, now MORE Referral comissions
Negative Toughts:
- CashFlow Problems, Making this update there will be more “Fresh” money in the program.
- Some people are claiming that have not been paid in the right time. (Just few hours late)
- Round 2 of referral comissions have been slowed down because of cashflow problems.
Now let me post some toughts of other people in forum and sites:
This is from Vincent Teoh: http://www.autosurf-guide.com/
Dear Fellow Autosurfer,
By now you should have read 12By12Daily’s latest update issued on 22 November 2006. It was pretty long (by Dave Cannard’s standards), but one crucial point in particular stood out for me: the 100% increase in the maximum upgrade from $6,000 to $12,000.
I’m NOT going to sit here and pretend that I’m not concerned in the slightest bit. While some optimists on the forums have welcomed this move as it will “attract an influx of new funds from autosurfers/admins originally intending to open 2 accounts to put more money in”, I prefer to adopt a more cautious view – it may indicate emerging cashflow problems.
Other Supporting Signs* Very mild payout delays of less than 24 hours – an investor who had a large amount ($8640) pending since 14 November (see here) eventually received it on 22 November (see here, he should have received it on 21 November). Perhaps it’s true that the delay was due to Dave cross-checking for cheaters and hackers, but I prefer to adhere to my own Autosurfing Commandment Number 2 – increase in payout time is the Number 1 sign of cashflow problem.
* As stated very clearly in the update, 12By12Daily’s membership count has reached 35,000. It’s my opinion that the majority of autosurfers are already members of this leading autosurf, leaving very little room for expansion in terms of new members and new funds. Most of the funds needed to pay out would probably come from reinvestment/ compounding from existing members rather than fresh funds from new investors.I’ll be honest here: I really want 12By12Daily to carry on for some time so that we can all make more money. But even though I have full confidence in his honesty, Dave can’t really grow money on trees – offering 44% profit in 21 days is no mean feat, and can only work for a limited time as long as members’ upgrades exceed payouts.
When’s the time? I don’t know for sure, but the more experienced autosurfers with huge sums in 12By12Daily would have been alarmed by the update and start pulling out their investment. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what you or I think, it’s the overall market force that’s going to determine how long it will last.
As such, I’m pulling out all of my principal in 12by12Daily and will only reinvest 20% of my overall profits. You may disagree with my reasonings, but I just want to be really upfront with you as to what’s going through my mind and what I’m doing about it… I’m already satisfied with the amount of profit I’ve made from 12By12Daily for more than 3 months, so I’d rather be safe than sorry.
Looking Out For You
Vincent Teoh
P.S. I don’t think that 12By12Daily will shutdown overnight in a sudden, given that Dave has proven his honesty over time. However, payout delays may start appearing and become longer/ more frequent, or new payout timeframe/ rules may be introduced. To minimise my chance of losing money, I try to avoid being trapped in this spiral if I can.
P.P.S. Remember, it’s not about you and me, it’s about the experienced heavy hitters who treat this update seriously.
and This is another tought about it:
Whilst, I can see the reasons for caution, I can also see that negative views (I’ve already had an email from one leader saying he’s going to withdraw most of his capital) can precipitate the one thing we don’t want to happen.
Consider, when other programs, such as 13dailypro recently doubled their maximum from $5k to $10k, nobody complained.. we all cheered… and now I make $13,200 montly profit from 13dp and it’s always on time.
I’m in full support of Dave… as a result of making $1,320 every 6-7 days for the past 17 weeks, I have built a portfolio with 4 other surfs and what with cash in hand, it totals $52,661 in just 128 days….netting me now over $25k a month… what other program or business could I have built that fast, without the Dave’s 12by12.
So THANKS DAVE… Let’s all support this move and give the guys who are compounding smaller sums, in an effort to max out, a chance to earn some big bucks too. Smiley
9planetreviews.com :
12by12Daily News: I disagree with Vincent Teoh’s assessment. The doubling of the max upgrade is perfectly fine and needed as more and more folks try to set up more than one account. Dave’s move on this eliminates a lot of detective work for the support staff, and himself, in trying to find “cheaters”, many of whom are likely not cheaters (no stacked accounts) but simply want to put in more than six grand.
As the the statement about autsurf industry saturation at 35,000 members? How can that be? Remember Easy Chair Club? They had way of 40,000 members! And what about the late 12DailyPro? How many did they have? Surely it was over 40,000. So what happened to all the excess members over 35,000? Car accidents?
I would advise Vincent to re-evaluate his position on this and issue a public apology for causing an unnecessary panic! Vincent should have waited for more clear signs as to the state of the economy over at 12by12daily. So he was simply premature. I did send him a note asking him to reconsider and publish a new statement. David may even provide him with more data? Who knows? I would, if I were David.
As to my opinion? I see excellent growth. I can even picture a future membership count hitting 100,000.
Author: SNS
Cut ‘n paste of what I wrote in MMG
“So Vincent Teoh has posted to his list that they should now get out of 12b12d or at least exercise extreme caution. Of course he asked his list to keep it private to stop panic, but as I’ve already received the URL to it from several different people, the link to his meanderings will now most likely be flooding the forums & private chats. So best to put it out in the open and let the facts speak for themselves.
And what does Vincent base his warning on? 3 things.
1) The doubling of the upgrade limit.
2) *His* assumption that there are no more than approx 35,000 surfers in the total pool of surfers available to invest in these ventures. So therefore according to his calculations 12b12d has used up nearly all the pool of available surfers.
3) The approx 12 hour delayed payout of Lauradale Investor’s upgrade.
1) From my point of view, yes, the doubling of the upgrade limit would normally be a red flag. But in this case, as has been argued by other posters on different forums, it makes sense that the king of the hill would double upgrades.
A great number of AS/Hyip programs will be earning their members funds by upgrading in 12b12d. Just as it was with 12DP and the other leader surfs that followed. Simpler for them to upgrade, simpler from the book keeping aspect for 12b12d.2) IMO only, I see the total pool of surfers far larger than the 35,000 that Vince speaks of.
3) The minimal delay in Lauradale Investors (MMG nym) payout, could be attributed to several things. From the double checking of a number of accounts as pointed out by Dave in yesterdays update, down to a simple oversight. With nearly 35000 accounts there are bound to be a few that slip through the cracks in the floor. We’ve already seen examples of those. And all affected have eventually been fixed.
What Vince failed to mention was all those with large accounts (myself included) who *did* get paid yesterday right on time.
All in all, Vincent is perfectly within his rights to express his view, but now that his “view” is circulating the net, and in conjunction with his marketing push to establish himself as the guru to guide all lost surfers to surfing profits, his viewpoint needs to be challenged.
And the cynic in me says that he knew very well that his advice to his list would propagate to the wild, and of course bring a whole bunch of new visitors to his site and his sales page for “Referral Magnet. Which coincidentally was just made available to the public again for $97. E-gold only
I also find it strange that for someone who says they’ve taken large profits from 12b12d over the last 3 months, that they should get the cycle period so wrong. Quote “offering 44% profit in 21 days” It’s 19 days Vince. Funny you never picked that up in all your upgrades….
Zakov:
WOW!!!
Someone is trying to make such rumor and try to says that red flag is flagging up now.
And promoting his marketing plan.
WOW!!!
Awesome,
DO you all think Dave is going to make 12by12daily die?
For me,
I don’t think so!!!
Kathryn – thanks for posting that information about Vince’s previous errors of judgement and wrong conclusions.
He is basing all his assumptions (and that’s all they are – assumptions) on what happened in other programs in the past. But those other programs were not being run by Dave Cannard and Dave has shown that he is an honest man who doesn’t deceive his members.
Vince has assumed that the maximum upgrade increase hints at cashflow problems. He doesn’t know that.
He has assumed that the slight delays in payments which occurred in the last 24 hours, the reasons for which where already explained by Dave in his latest newsletter, are another reason to be concerned. One day’s slight delay in payments, for reasons already explained, are a reason to reach a conclusion about 12by12daily’s future! Gimme a break
He has assumed that 35,000 people in a program “… leaves little room for expansion of new members …” What an absurd suggestion! Where does he get that idea from? How many people joined the old 12dailypro – 100,000 or more?
I am a member of Vincent’s list and he has also advised against upgrades in XLOsurf and it sister site The FinerThings HYIP.
He thought Andy might have started The FinerThings to have funds available to pay out in XLO–similar to what he is saying about Dave deciding to double the upgrade limit here.
But XLO just passed its 1st anniversary and The Finer Things has not missed a payment yet.
Vincent does terrific DD in finding out who is behind new AS sites, and is very conservative in his approach to autosurfing. He makes most of his money from referrals. And I don’t think he would ever say his way is the only way.
Nobody—not Vincent, and not me, and not you, and not even Dave–knows what will happen with the new upgrade limit. Will more people see it as a red flag than decide to take advantage of it? But, if it seems to be scaring more people than it is encouraging, and it was really NOT put in place because of cash flow problems, why couldn’t Dave just return the maximum upgrade amout to $6K?
With Dave’s reputation and his penchant for integrity and honesty, I find it very hard to believe that he would raise, no not just raise, but double the upgrade level becuase the site was having cashflow problems. When Stormpay screwed us all, he had the opportunity to use that excuse as so many others did and close up shop in Dadndaves. But did he? No. He was determined to follow through and make good on his promise to his members. He could have doubled upgrade levels there as well to bring in more money. Did he? No. In fact, he eventually stopped accepting upgrades altogether stating that he couldn’t in good conscience continue to accept members money when the site was not sustaining itself. He has proven himself to be a good business man and an honest one at that. Yes payments in Dadndaves are taking a while, but we have every reason to believe that he will eventually make good on his promise to each of us who are members there and we will get paid. As for this site, 12×12, I am one the senior members. My member number is under 300, so I have been around since day one. I have also been a member of dadndaves since shortly after its inception and have never been disappointed with Dave’s track record as an admin. I am also an upgraded, maxed out member. I would love to have an additional account and I would max it out as well. For Dave to allow members to have 2 or 3 accounts would be insane. He is doing the majority of the work himself now as it is, and membership is continuing to grow at a very steady pace. Allowing us multiple accounts would only double or triple his work load. Why would any admin want that? By raising the member level, he is providing a win win situation for us members. We are able to grow larger accounts and his work load doesn’t increase. The entire time I have been a member here only 2 of my pending payments were late and they were only late by 1 day. Give the guy a break! He works 7 days a week to provide us with the #1 best autosurfing site on the net. Problems are going to occur and issues are going to have to be dealt with. With a membership base of 35,000 and growing, there are bound to be a few payments that fall through the cracks. No one (and no system for that matter) is perfect. If you think you are, try walking on water and see how far you get. Personally, I don’t believe Dave would allow us to upgrade more if he didn’t feel that in good conscience it was sustainable. He’s just not that kind of guy.
And our “Man of they year” said:
This self professed guru, who incidentally charges people $97 a pop to read his drivel, claims that my motivation in raising the maximum member level was an indication of some cashflow problems. Huh?? If I raise the member level, I also raise the amount I have to pay out. Does that sound like the actions of a man with cashflow problems?
What does he base this speculation on? In his own words “very mild payout delays” Yep, he read in a forum that one (Yep, one) member had received his payout one day late. I hate to be the bearer of bad news Mr Teoh, but some people receive their payouts one day late all the time, for all sorts of different reasons.
We have many good points in both opinions, if anyone remember about 13dailypro when they made the same thing that Dave did yesterday and no one complain. I wonder why?
I want to make something clear, every Autosurfer is free to invest or stop investing in any autosurf. Don’t follow other people “I got paid” or “My payments is Delayed”. You have to make a research, following more than one source not just one forum or one site. Try to search in Google with the word “12by12daily” “12by12daily payments”. I can say that is true that this guy has been delayed (and was paid after few hours) and as well is also true that many members got paid in the right time (You can check 12by12daily forum). But is also true that is your OWN desicion to invest or not invest here as well promote or not promoting here!
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